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Shelley Chadwick's avatar

I am soooo sick of Israeli/Mossad Hasbara and US government/CIA lies and cover-ups. I'm just an average 66 y.o. Canadian that lived in Europe for 27 years and it drives me nuts that all Westeners haven't seen through this garbage.

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Max's avatar

It’s not that complicated. Three years to build, weaponize, and test a modernized nuclear weapon to put on a ballistic missile. Weeks to build a functional nuclear weapon. There is no civilian use for the levels of enrichment Iran has achieved.

Calling that manufactured consent is bizarre. Nobody in the region wants Iran to have a Nuke. There is more to geo-politics than Israel bad, Jews control the government. It’s the same tropes that killed millions. May kill millions again.

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Dorrido's avatar

Israel should be forced to give up its illicit nuclear weapons, for a nuclear free Middle East. Israel is the main threat in the region, nothing to do with jews - Israel is betraying Judaism bot representing Judaism: genocide, land theft, supremacy, apartheid, desecration of human life are parallels with nazism not Judaism). Israel has recently bombed Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and now an illegal unprovoked act of aggression on Iran. Iran signed the Non Proliferation Treaty, is subject to stringent investigations. Israel refuses to sign it, refuses IEAE inspections. Iran is home to the second largest population of Jews in the Middle East, with synagogues

, centres of learning. Israel is endangering those Jews in its indiscriminate bombings of Iran

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BenMedia's avatar

Iran has a 100% legal nuclear energy program, so of course they have high levels of enrichment. Every investigation into Iran's nuclear energy program, including by the IAEA and the US intelligence community, determined that there's no evidence that Iran's developing a nuclear weapon (we also had a treaty with Iran that assured they wouldn't do that, but Trump tore it up). But even if Iran was trying to develop nuclear weapons, it would still take them years to do and even if they do, they would only use it as a deterrent against US and Israeli aggression.

I also love how you try to simplify a genocidal apartheid expansionist state that's caused a war in the Middle East by condescendingly going "Israel bad".

Also, trying to say that The Dissident said "Jews control the government" is blatantly dishonest and you know it.

The only ideology that may get millions killed is Zionism.

You've got nothing Zionist troll.

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Max's avatar

You don’t need 60%+ enrichment for civilian purposes. IAEA came out and said Iran was accelerating efforts towards a bomb. If Iran gets a bomb, Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Turkey push for a Nuke.

You seem to know a lot about what Iran would or would not do with a Nuke. Seems pretty naive. No chance they give it proxies? No chance they put it in downtown Tel Aviv? What if it was your hometown?

Calling an entire country’s state apparatus liars and blaming Israel for America’s foreign policy mistakes is a double standard that is uniquely reserved for Israel. It is a dog whistle for Jews control the government.

Calling someone a Zionist troll for having a different point of view is fascist. I would imagine your heart is in the right place and just want peace but your echo chamber seems pretty well sealed…

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BenMedia's avatar

"You don’t need 60%+ enrichment for civilian purposes."

Iran has a 100% legal nuclear energy program. No evidence of development of nuclear weapons. And again, even if they were, it would only be as a deterrent.

"IAEA came out and said Iran was accelerating efforts towards a bomb."

First, citation please.

Second, did anything happen recently that might have convinced them they should try?

"If Iran gets a bomb, Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Turkey push for a Nuke."

And? Countries with nuclear weapons don't attack each other.

"You seem to know a lot about what Iran would or would not do with a Nuke. Seems pretty naive."

The whole reason you develop nuclear weapons is as a deterrent. Why do you think North Korea developed nuclear weapons? Do you think Russia would have invaded Ukraine if Ukraine had nuclear weapons? Further, even US and Israeli intelligence officials have admitted that even if Iran developed a nuke, they'd only use it as a deterrent.

"No chance they give it proxies? No chance they put it in downtown Tel Aviv? What if it was your hometown?"

Baseless fearmongering. And pretty hypocritical considering that Israel has an illegal nuclear arsenal.

"Calling an entire country’s state apparatus liars and blaming Israel for America’s foreign policy mistakes is a double standard that is uniquely reserved for Israel."

First, their entire state apparatus are liars. They've been lying about everything in Gaza and now they're lying about Iran after previously helping to lie about Iraq.

Second, Israel is one of numerous groups that influence US policy in the Middle East. The others are Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the Arms Industry, the Fossil Fuel Industry and the Christian Right. And all of them want a war with Iran.

"It is a dog whistle for Jews control the government."

No it isn't. Most Zionists aren't even Jewish, there are more Christian Zionists in America than there are Jews in the entire world. So, saying that Zionists control the government isn't the same thing as saying that Jews or Israelis control the government.

Further, as for why the US supports Israel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUQ_0MubbcM&t=58s&pp=ygUTbm9hbSBjaG9tc2t5IGlzcmFlbA%3D%3D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpbKeLYCoVg

"Calling someone a Zionist troll for having a different point of view is fascist."

I called you a Zionist troll because you very clearly are. You came here to defend Israel and the US government's lies about Iran.

I also find it funny that you call me a fascist for calling you out, when the United States is currently under a fascist government and Israel is a fascist state.

"I would imagine your heart is in the right place and just want peace but your echo chamber seems pretty well sealed…"

Nice projection

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James Roberts's avatar

What's your definition of fascist?

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BenMedia's avatar

Look up the criteria of Fascism from Lawrence Britt and Umberto Eco.

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James Roberts's avatar

So, a very tough assessment using a 3 point scale, of the degree to which these nations are fascist:

USA / Israel / Iran

"Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism" 2/3/3

"Disdain for the importance of human rights" 1/1/3

"Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause" 2/2/3

"The supremacy of the military/avid militarism" 2/2/2

"Rampant sexism" 1/1/3

"A controlled mass media" 2/2/3

"Obsession with national security" 2/3/2

"Religion and ruling elite tied together" 1/2/3

"Power of corporations protected" 2/2/?

"Power of labor suppressed or eliminated" 2/1/3

"Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts" 2/1/3

"Obsession with crime and punishment" 2/1/3

"Rampant cronyism and corruption" 2/?/3

"Fraudulent elections" 1/1/3

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James Roberts's avatar

Can you vote evidence there are more Christian Zionists in America than Jews in the world? Or, by Christian Zionists, do you mean Christians who believe Israel is a nation state that should be allowed to continue to exist?

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BenMedia's avatar

There are at least 30 million Christian Zionists in America.

There are about 15 million Jews in the world.

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James Roberts's avatar

Again, please clarify what you mean by a Christian Zionist.

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Shelley Chadwick's avatar

Iran signed the NPA under Obama in return for sanction relief, Iran complied with every detail (including inspections) then Trump tore up the agreement and imposed crippling sanctions (as per Netenyau's wishes).

Iran has been trying to negotiate a new deal with Trump and, in the meantime have over the last 8 years, gradually ramped up their nuclear levels from the originally agreed 3.67% to what is believed to be 60%. Some experts have suggested this only a bargaining tool. 90% is required for a nuclear weapon so, yes Iran could achieve this in the matter of a week or two.

There are a couple of problems with Trumps "lntelligence" which, if the dismissal of Tulsi Gabbard's sworn testimony in March is anything to go by, he doesn't listen to anybody anyway. 1. Iran has not developed the missiles capable of delivering a nuclear warhead, and 2. The Supreme Leader of Iran issued a Fatwah against his country developing or having a nuclear weapon.

In addition, US Gen. Wesley Clark (ret) stated that the Pentagon had a plan to attack 7 countries in 5 years to "protect" Israel. Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and IRAN. Although they are behind schedule the plan has achieved it's target.

Meanwhile Israel refused to sign an NPA or subject itself to regular inspections and is the only country in the Middle East that has a nuclear weapons programme. It is estimated they have between 200 and 400 ready to launch so, when it comes to who is the existential threat, l'd humbly suggest it isn't Iran. But if the plan fails, Israel has the Samson Directive!

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Max's avatar
Jun 24Edited

I agree with much of what you said, but your lens is so narrow.

Also, Iran did not even come remotely close to complying with all the components of NPA.

Iran was ramping up nuclear enrichment and weapon capacity prior to Trump re-trading on NPA.

Agreed on the state of Iran’s nuclear program. Agreed that Israel has nuclear weapons.

Cherry picking testimony from Tulsi and Wesley Clark is classic YouTube anti-establishment propaganda. Yes, both those things are true. But, the US has military plans for wars and scenarios across the world. That’s what military planners do. You can’t draw a line from proactive military planning to grand Middle East strategy.

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Shelley Chadwick's avatar

I'm not intentionally cherry-picking. I am following many, many different sources (left/right, West/East) in order to form my opinion. If you however think they are all "classic" You Tube anti-establishment POV's that l am merely parroting, then perhaps you could kindly provide links and evidence upon which you believe l am mistaken.

For what it's worth, l am a 66 yo Canadian and have lived through many years of geo-political conflicts (wars, LOL) and l have travelled extensively throughout Europe including the Middle East so, please don't feel inclined to dumb anything down on my behalf. ;-)

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BenMedia's avatar

There's no evidence that Iran is trying to develop a nuclear weapon, but even if they were, they'd only use it as a deterrent against US and Israeli aggression.

It's also not surprising that we're going to war with Iran. The groups that influence US policy in the Middle East are Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the Arms Industry, the Fossil Fuel Industry and the Christian Right. And all of them want a war with Iran for one reason or another.

It's also not surprising that Tulsi Gabbard flip-flopped because she's always been a careerist, an opportunist and a hawk.

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Truth Seeking Missile's avatar

The US government has been taken over, as Mossad has agents in the White House.

https://open.substack.com/pub/thegrayzone/p/trump-official-to-the-grayzone-cias

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Magic Girl's avatar

This is a redux of George W. Bush!

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Sez77's avatar

Lies and deception are Israel's forte, as illustrated in your previous article about their attempts to hide their own activities.

"In order to cover up the real Nuclear facility, Israel constructed a fake control room at Dimona, in coordination with France, in order to hide the real Nuclear reaction from the American inspectors.

As Hersh wrote:

The Israeli scheme, based on plans supplied by the French, was simple: a false control room was constructed at Dimona, complete with false control panels and computer-driven measuring devices that seemed to be gauging the thermal output of a twenty-four-megawatt reactor (as Israel claimed Dimona to be) in full operation. There were extensive practice sessions in the fake control room, as Israeli technicians sought to avoid any slips when the Americans arrived. The goal was to convince the inspectors that no chemical reprocessing plant existed or was possible. One big fear was that the Americans would seek to inspect the reactor core physically, and presumably discover that Dimona was utilizing large amounts of heavy water — much of it illicitly obtained from France and Norway — and obviously operating the reactor at far greater output than the acknowledged twenty-four megawatts. It was agreed that the inspection team would not be permitted to enter the core "for safety reasons." In Abe Feinberg's view, Kennedy's unyielding demand for an inspection had left Israel with no option: "It was part of my job to tip them off that Kennedy was insisting on this. So they gave him a scam job."

Hersh noted that American inspections took place at this fake control room until 1969, writing:

The American team, following a pattern that would be repeated until the inspections came to an end in 1969, spent days at Dimona, climbing through the various excavations — many facilities had yet to be constructed — but finding nothing. They did not question the fact that the reactor core was off-limits and gave no sign that they were in any way suspicious of the control room. The Israelis even stationed a few engineers in a concealed area in the control room to monitor the machinery and make sure that nothing untoward took place.

Another aspect of the cover-up was made much easier by the fact that none of the Americans spoke or understood Hebrew".

https://open.substack.com/pub/the307/p/the-samson-option-how-israel-not?r=nll84&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

(Great work btw).

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SocraticGadfly's avatar

Now I'll agree she's hypocritical, not just opportunist.

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BenMedia's avatar

She's a careerist, an opportunist and a fraud

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Hens's avatar

I’d like to hear here side of things, would be interesting

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Hard Head and Soft Heart's avatar

Intel professionals cannot be restricted to things that they said in the past. They have to be able to change their minds…in fact, if they resist changing their mind it’s a sign that they are politicians and not Intel pros

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Hard Head and Soft Heart's avatar

This article is intellectually lazy. What about the possibility that new information shows a nuke in Israel? In march she had no chance to look into it. Now she has been on the job for three months. Still not a long time but long enough to investigate the question

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Jim Massaro's avatar

I think you forgot to include this part of her testimony..The problem is they cut out the next sentences that immediately came out of her mouth: "In the past year, we've seen an erosion of a decades-long taboo in Iran on discussing nuclear weapons in public, likely emboldening nuclear weapons advocates within Iran's decision-making apparatus. Iran's enriched uranium stockpile is at its highest levels and is unprecedented for a state without nuclear weapons," as can be seen in this longer clip that she tweeted on Friday with the comment:

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MoT's avatar

If my neighbors neighbor kept waving a gun in my face and saying "One day... itll be you"... I'd change my tune as well.

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Janine's avatar

Thank you for this sanity midst the hysteria

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Nick's avatar

Iraq 2.0.

Who knew huh.

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AnAmericanReader's avatar

She did say in her testimony that Iran had a “stockpile” of nuclear materials. How close they are (or were) to a bomb is open to interpretation. This is different from the WMD argument in the lead up to the Gulf War, which wasn’t about potential Iraqi nuclear capability but the existence of finished bombs in Iraq.

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BenMedia's avatar

Iran has a nuclear energy program, so of course they have a "stockpile of nuclear materials". But their program is 100% legal and there's no evidence they're trying to develop nuclear weapons. And even if they were, it's still going to be years before they get one and even if they do, they would only use them as a deterrent against US and Israeli aggression.

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Kerry Devine's avatar

It is also 100% legal for your neighbor to own a cache of assault rifles. I wonder how you would feel about that. Not trying to be a smart ass, just sayin’

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BenMedia's avatar

This is actually a really dumb analogy because Israel has developed a nuclear arsenal illegally

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Kerry Devine's avatar

No need to inject false equivalence or whataboutism here. I’m merely talking about feeling safe—talking about Iran without Israel involved. Bringing up Israel makes it a different point completely, which is your point, not mine. Since you are unwilling to separate the two, add Israel as a neighbor across the street who has “illegal guns.” And the rest of the neighborhood says “from the river to the sea,” which means they all want his whole family dead. And then your original neighbor with “legal” assault rifles (Iran) is out in the front yard every day yelling “death to the neighbors!” It’s fair to say you want them both to give up their weapons, but I don’t need to wait for Israel to get rid of theirs to want Iran to get rid of theirs. Ya feel me? You are attempting to make your point my point. I put a contract on a house years ago and discovered afterward that the resident two doors down owned his guns legally and he shot a neighbor in a road rage incident—that’s why all the homes on that street were for sale! Well, fuck that neighborhood. Sorry. I live in America and Israel is not shouting “death to America.” Your inclusion of Israel is a moral argument and that’s fine, but that’s your point, not mine, so my analogy works as is. Nothing dumb about it. You really should be more civil in your responses. Good day!

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BenMedia's avatar

First, you very clearly didn't understand my point, which is that it's hypocritical to complain about Iran developing nuclear weapons when a) they aren't, b) even if they were, they'd only use them as a deterrent against US and Israeli aggression and c) Iran's nuclear energy program is 100% legal, all while Israel has an illegal nuclear arsenal.

Second, your analogy is still really dumb. Here's a more accurate one: Let's say you're living in a neighborhood. Then one day someone shows up at your house and tells you that someone burned down their house and killed their family. Then they tell you that because of that, they're going to move into your house and take it over while you have to live in the tool shed in the back yard. And then they not only do that, but they also control the food, water, medicine and electricity towards the tool shed, you can't leave the tool shed without their permission, and whenever you have a child, they have to be registered with the people living in your house. Now, after this, you decide to throw a rock through the window of the house, and then they respond by blowing up the tool shed with a rocket launcher. Then, after all that, one of your neighbors decides to give you some guns so that you can fight back. And after that, the people who are living in your house start screaming that your neighbor is acting like the aggressor. Now, in this scenario, it's pretty obvious who the aggressors are. It's the same with Israel, Palestine and Iran. All this whining about Iran being the aggressor is just Israel trying to take out an adversary.

Third, "from the river to the sea" isn't a genocidal statement, it's a liberation statement. Please stop repeating this lie.

Fourth, you very clearly don't understand the history of Iran to understand why they'd be chanting "Death to America".

Fifth, I do love how you complained that I wasn't civil (which is a stupid complaint anyway) when all I did was point out that your analogy was dumb.

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Kerry Devine's avatar

TL,DR. All I did was put up an analogy as food for thought. I wasn't challenging you or anyone else to a fucking debate. Using the word "dumb" is not civil, or maybe you're too dumb to know that. In any case, get over it.

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GrannyC's avatar

The entire region should have nuclear weapons, not just western back proxies. Level the field, everyone equally armed. If they want peace through strength, then everybody gets to be strong.

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MoT's avatar

You mean those "finished" weapons that were never discovered? Those weapons?

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Rita Crawley's avatar

Shelly, Iran has been working towards weapons grade uranium for years and years! Nobody is making up anything. Clean energy requires 3 to 4% uranium enrichment, but we are talking the

60+% required for ☢️ nuclear weapons? What part of that equation don’t you understand? The people who run Iran are pure evil! Should good people sit idle UNTIL they blow America off the face of the earth? Their end goal is to destroy “the Great Satan” and propel the world backwards in time to the dark ages!

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Brian Matthews's avatar

I think you have been brainwashed by American propaganda . The pure evil one is Israel with the genocidal maniac Nettenyahu at the head . They need to be driven out completely from where they were dumped in 1947 . Israel have never had inspectors in and never will to look at their nuclear arsenal . Israel would not be there but for the Zionist lobby in America who have taken over the government . Trump is not in charge ,he has to do as he is told , it was Zionist money that got him into power . If you want the truth I suggest you listen to these people . Professor Jeffery Sachs , Judge Napolitano , Larry Johnson , Scott Ritter , Ray McGovern , Colonel Doug McGregor . And many others .

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Brian Matthews's avatar

America have already done that . They have bombed the world over the last fifty years , leaving a trail of destruction with millions dead and millions as refugees .

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MoT's avatar

And the israelis have not only stolen nuclear material from the US ((( oy vey... what a friend ))) they lied about Dimona and have nukes that they threaten anyone anywhere if they so feel like it. So spare us your crocodile tears.

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Brian Matthews's avatar

Yep ,and their nuclear program has never been inspected ,and they won’t allow any inspectors in anyway . They are the biggest genocidal regime around along with the Americans ,both hypocrites in the extreme .

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neo's avatar

this is all very depressing and enraging--one of my defenses for becoming a maga supporter last year was--biden got the world into 2 wars..(apart from fauci etc)--and Trump term there were NO wars--and Trump said would stop all these wars!! and now he's launched the mother of all wars ..and dragging EU into it..

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James Roberts's avatar

I'm questioning the reality of their being 30 million so called Christian Zionists. Go find one. It shouldn't be hard, approximately one in every 11 million Americans, if you're sources are correct.

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

Great PSYOP. Love it. For those wanting to learn more:

https://www.polymathicbeing.com/p/psyop-until-proven-otherwise

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